[Rich Z]

Jeeeeesuuuss! Sorry to hear about that! Man, what an expensive lesson THAT was, to be sure! Maybe it's a good thing I haven't had time to order reloading dies, otherwise I could have been in the boat with you.

I'll bet this post is REALLY going to dampen any other enthusiasm about experimenting with reloading this round......

 

[Red October]

I hope that my experience will give anyone pause before jumping into this.

I now have Five-seveN number 2. While at the gun shop, the dealer mentioned hearing a rumor that FN was going to begin manufacturing heavier grain bullets for the pistol. That should prove interesting. Mine showed no signs of stress until the 40 grain slug was fired. I don't think I'll be the first to try out any heavier bullets.

I spoke to Browning this morning (apparently they supply parts for FN in the US). They have SOME parts listed for the Five-seveN, but not all, and they could not disclose which parts, or what the prices are (??). I am considering sending the gun to them for a repair estimate. Haven't decided yet, but I hate to just write the first one off.

I have not given up on the concept of reloading this round, but I don't think I'll be pioneering anymore on a polymer gun.

 

[rl56]

5.7x28 what charge

Red October, what powder and charge were you using that caused the damage. I may have a safe load for the 40gr.

 

[Rich Z]

Well, that was plenty enough incentive for me to go buy another case of ammo. Looks like it might be a long, rocky road to get reloading data down pat. Might lose a few guns in the process, which I really don't want one of mine to be on that list.

Plus I am reserving a spot in my vaults for one of those P90 semi-autos when they become available, so I want to make sure I have enough food around to feed it.

I heard that the semi auto version will only come with a 35 round mag instead of the standard 50 rounder in the full auto version. Any truth to this?

 

[JP480]

Finally I've found a forum on the 5.7,and i'm very interested in reloading.As you can see i'm new to this site and a novice reloader.Let's keep the 5.7 scene alive,long live the 5.7!

 

[Red October]

What Charge

I was using Alliant 2400, 4.5 grains of powder. I expected this to be a very low charge. It did seem to be; the muzzle velocity was in the 400's of fps.
I expected the end charge to be on the low end between 6 & 7 grains.


Rich: regarding the P90, I haven't heard anything about smaller mags, but I'll keep my ears open.

 

[Rich Z]

Hey, I saw someone on Gunbroker selling a case (2000 rounds) of 5.7x28 for $1,500!! I just ordered the same thing from AZ GunRunners for $700. Maybe I should have ordered TWO cases? :shrugs:

 

[brass hammer]

damn! that's bad news to hear,RED OCTOBER!
i am in to the concept, of what you fella's are into, and might just 'mark time' until it's right to join-in on you guys pistol adventure!


as i feel it is the 'wave' of the future!!!!!!!!

 

[Rich Z]

I think once you shoot one, you'll be pretty much sold on it. It's like a Mattel toy gun with teeth. Weighs almost nothing. And 20 rounds of those zingers on tap in a handgun is nothing to sneeze at.

One thing that bugs me is that I asked about the night sights for this gun, but was told that they FiveseveN night sights won't fit the civilian model. Huh? Why in the world would they do that?

 

[JP480]

Check out impact guns website they listed 5.7 night sights but they are out of stock.Anybody know if they are actually available to civies?

 

[Rich Z]

Just got word that the 5.7x28 ammo is on backorder until mid March. It might get REAL scarce when FN releases their semi-auto P90.....

 

[AZ COLLECTOR]

got an idea here...
perhaps load devlopment would be better in a cheap single shot.
like a contender barrel chambered in 5.7x28.
then we could get the velocitys and pressure right with a safety margine.

second thought.....i could be way off on this but could the powder charge have been too low?
blow back action= a weight delay system
if the impulse was stretched out longer could that cause a problem?

or perhaps the brass didn't get enough pressure to expand gripping the chamber?

just a few thoughts.....and man i really feal for you....so sorry about the pistol.

sean

 

[brass hammer]

well, your right,A-Z!
on the BASTARDIATION! of the 'pip-sqeek' cartridge to BEGIN WITH!
by wanting to 'push' ,,what-ever? thro' it ,,,,IT!

 

[Rich Z]

My impression on firing mine was that they must be using a very fast powder for the charge. Muzzle flash was pretty much non existent, but I was firing in daylight, so I'm only comparing to other guns I have shot with different powders.

But heck, hearing about a gun blowing up (and not a CHEAP gun, at that) sure puts the damper on enthusiasm for trying this myself at home. Even using a Contender barrel for initial testing, how to you quantify all of the details needed to make sure the test round WON'T blow up your FiveseveN? The single shot barrel tells you nothing at all about how the round will react in the semi-auto action. Maybe looking at this in a different way would be better. Maybe a stronger semi-auto action barreled for the 5.7x28 would be the better route. Could a 1911 be adapted to shoot this round? Well, sure, I assume it can, but I guess the keywords are "easily" and "cheaply". That way get some background info on loadings by reading the brass and playing around with recoil springs in the test gun as you try to fine tune a load.

Just rambling, I guess. Sure do hate it when I think of that gun blowing up.... :crap:

 

[Chippathingy]

Here’s some brainstorming I was doing on this (while multitasking, so excuse the lack of continuity)
How is the "delayed blowback" delayed?
I have read the barrel recoils much like a modified short/long recoil type action.
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0110.html
What is the slide made out of? Alloy? Partially synthetic?
A lightweight slide would make it fragile with heavy recoiling rounds.
The ejector looks kind of fragile too.

At first it sounded like heavier recoil springs and a heavier slide are in order.
But that wouldn’t keep the recoiling barrel from being the weak point. This seems like a design flaw. No real way to re-enforce it (What do you guys think?)
That’s where is broke right? (I don’t want to read the last few pages again)
How is the recoil spring laid out ?
How deap was the bullet pressed into the case ? Could the excess pressure be a result of bullet depth?

I have a book with a field stripped Grendal P-30. It looks like the 5-7 could have been based on this pistol and up scaled or re-engineered for a hotter round.

Were I to design a pistol like this and still keep it small, I think I would go with an HKP7 type gas piston or other locking system. Blowback, delayed or not, seems inappropriate for a potentially high pressure round.
Its all about recoil impulse on the case head and pressure curve/spike.
Without test barrels and lab equiptment this would be hard to gauge accutely.
Purhaps start with loading data methodology for non-locked breach blowback weapons like a .380 or etc.

You know, I was thinking...and maybe I'm out in left field here...but its possible they modified the pistol or built it a certain way to limit its hand loading potential because they knew some one would load up monolithic solids or ss109s and make it more AP then the commercial loadings...and cause a media nightmare...just a thought.

Some insight, from one of the alleged 100 countries that have purchased the weapon would be a good start.
Find someone who stress tested it and rejected it for service and they can give you the whole story, or at least give you something to work with.

If you're going to go the 1911/ParaOrd/Glock route you might was well try to wildcat a .224 boz or .223 Timbs type round with a hotter charge.

 

[Chippathingy]

most blowback operated pistols I have cooked rounds for worked best with no roll or taper crimp. A light cannelure type was ok.
Are you getting too much pressure from a heavy crimp ?

 

[AZ COLLECTOR]

not really trying to defend the single shot theory but....
my intent was to get something that would allow comparison between the factory loading and the handload. such as velocity (not the greatest indicator)
flash(this is not really great either do to the rather large possibility of flash retardent) recoil (this isn't bad but not great either) pressure signs in the brass (somewhat subjective)
from looking at the powder in the cases.....thinking 231 or red dot, bullseye. might be a better place to start. i am really thinking the magnum powders may be a little too slow. what do you guys think about that idea? and no i won't blame anyone if i blow mine up. but i will most likely whine and pout a bit.

well have a good one.
sean

 

[Rich Z]

Heck, I tend to go with the "faster powders for lighter projectiles or shorter barrels concept". What sort of powders are used in .22 and .17 rimfires? This might be the starting point you need.

 

[Red October]

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my earlier posting. My first Five-seveN didn't blow up, it broke.

Before I fired a shot, I miked the overall length of an SS192 round, so my rounds would be seated at the proper depth. The slugs I used were shorter than the SS192 slugs (I extracted one), so I know that it didn't extend too far into the case. The FN slug is surprisingly long (.810!) to only be 28 grains. I have 231, Red Dot, Bullseye, Unique, and a bunch of IMR powders, but I have used 2400 the most by far, and selected it in an attempt to have the case be nearly full on a normal load (for consistency of performance).

As nearly as I can tell, the sequence went something like this:
Shot number one:
There is a piece of metal that blocks the slide, which is rolled forward by the grey plastic take-down button.
Upon firing the slide moved backwards (likely too hard), striking that piece of metal. This impact on the metal broke the plastic mechanism which is a moulded part of that take-down button.
The shot "felt" fine. Not too light or too hard. On this shot, my chrony reported an error and didn't give a good reading.
Shot number two:
Slide retracts after firing. At this point, the metal block is not held in the correct position by the plastic. The slide strikes this block, and the block rolls backwards (as if the take-down was slid rearward). This applies leverage to the slide while moving backward. The front of the slide lifts, partially dislocating the 'T'-rail on the front of the grip frame. The slide comes to a stop with the metal block firmly jammed under it.

After some amount of work, I have managed to get the gun apart, assess the damage, and (mostly) reassemble it. The only part that is obviously permanently damaged is the grey plastic take-down operator.
I am planning to send it to Browning (who does repairs for FN pistols) and get an estimate for repair and test firing.

I have pistol #2 now, but getting #1 repaired would be nice.

On a different note: I hear that SS192 is now "outlawed" as being considered an "armor piercing" round, and that there is a new SS196 coming out in a heavier grain bullet. Any truth to this? It sounds ridiculous enough to be initiated by the media, and unfortunately, be true. I can't recall ever seeing an armor piercing hollow point ...

 

[Chippathingy]

Days ago I read a link to the ATF website stating they specifically dubbed all 5-7 ammo non-AP , except the steel core obviously.